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The CENSORED dialogue Interview

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Big up the homie Vivian Medithi for this casual, musically deep interview with the other homie, Finals [selector](https://www.finals.blog/posts/Recorded-Sets-from-Stakes-Is-Low-3:-Hua-Hsu-Mano-b2b-swoozydolphin) and [contributor](https://finals.blog/posts/Remembering-That-Recording-Is-About-Remembering), the mighty and multitalented swoozydolphin from Detroit. If you slept on swoozy's Omnibus album this summer, under his real name (sort of) Toriin, you lost. But it's not too late to tap into one of the most emotional, rangy, chill-yet-knocking projects of the year. I find it to be a hardwon triumph, a perfect version of his work in this particular wavy vocal/production chamber, great for soundtracking rough moments in life where you still gotta swag it out and survive with style. Real end of the year list material if you like rap, dance, and shoegaze music. And true to his prolific nature swoozy's already got more jams out, more DJ mixes, and everything's fire. Do your googles! 

<iframe style="border: 0; width: 350px; height: 470px;" src="https://bandcamp.com/EmbeddedPlayer/album=1915470459/size=large/bgcol=ffffff/linkcol=0687f5/tracklist=false/transparent=true/" seamless><a href="https://swoozydolphin.bandcamp.com/album/omnibus">OMNIBUS by toriin</a></iframe>

**Vivian: What do you usually watch on youtube?**

Swoozy: A lot of geartube unfortunately. Music gear, and ambient videos. I’m gonna put one on in the background right now because why not. Youtube is hard lately. 

**Gear videos like, I bought this new thing and here’s what it does?**

Pretty much. Or here’s the technique we used in the ‘80s and how to use it in a modern studio. 

**Do you find that platform agnostic technique transfer of using old techniques on new platforms compelling? Or is that just something you watched recently?**

I think it’s good. I jump from platform to platform. The nature of the job is I’m always getting familiar with something new. Recently a kid at work who was 19 wanted to get into beats, and I got him Ableton. But he wants to make beats that people don’t make tutorials for on Ableton. So I’m sending him FL studio so he understands that if you know what you’re doing, it doesn’t matter the platform. 

**A while ago you wrote something for Finals about making artifacts of sonic space in terms of recording. It’s interesting to think about the transliteration of these techniques from the 80s to now. In some ways you can’t get back that thing that was happening in that medium.** 

It’s cool because we’re in an era where the fidelity is not the issue. And virtual instruments make most things accessible. The harder thing is the spatial awareness and the mindset. Really not much has changed but our understanding has changed. People will make a song entirely in the box, all synthesis, AI vocals, and that point, where is the understanding of some real analog thing coming from? It’s interesting how far we’ve come. And how far we haven’t come. Cuz like Lazer Dim is raw. But if you could make beats like that in the ‘70s, and put it on two track, four track tape machine, and dude ripped that, it would still sound like Lazer Dim. 

**I’m sure everyone feels this way now, but there is a lot of rehashing across mediums. I think we see it heavily in music. It’s interesting to hear you say that because it’s like thinking about it in the reverse.** 

People been rehashing forever. Nothing new under the sun. Also means nobody’s new in coming up with original verses, original ideas. Everything is being accelerated now. I was watching a documentary about the blues in the Mississippi Delta, and this is not a knock on any of the original bluesmen and blueswomen, but you can tell they’re all pulling from the same well, and this is the ur, OG American pop music. Everything comes from that. You know the Lil Peep 2 thing? There was a blues guy named 1 and 2, that was how people referred to them. Sonny Boy. There was a Sonny Boy in Chicago, and a Sonny Boy in Mississippi. And they were like, OK, we can’t do this. So everyone knew if you were talking about Sonny Boy 2, you were talking about Sonny Boy from Mississippi. And his music probably didn’t sound too much different either. And that was 100 years ago. 

**My grandparents have the blues, I have dark plugg.** 

Basically. 

**Speaking of unoriginal people rehashing stuff, you had a tweet recently that was like “every Deftones sample/cover is better than the OG. That band sucks and I need people to be honest.” How do you feel about Deftones, swoozy?**

I like some of the stuff. I mean, I don’t want to draw the ire of Chino Moreno’s fans. Deftones, it’s fine. I feel like we all have way too rosy of an idea of nu metal and posthardcore, and post-grunge world. It wasn’t like the stuff was great or new at the time, it just sort of lasted. They had some slaps, but Deftones versus Smashing Pumpkins? Get out of here. When I listen to people who interpolate and take Deftones further, I’m like yeah this is good music. When I listen to Deftones 80% of the time I’m like, cool, this sounds like 90s nu metal. I feel like that’s more my taste. But also I don’t know, I don’t feel like we gotta retread the grunge/post-nu metal.

**We don’t have to talk about Deftones again. I know you are somebody who is interested in somewhat weird and esoteric music, I know you operate within genres that are fairly commercial, and work with people who are maybe more digestible like RXKNephew, or Dazegxd, or gum.mp3, people who are making, I don’t want to say any less rigorous or interesting work, but more accessible. Where does that impulse stem from for you?** 

In terms of being esoteric, I have a lot of interest and a lot of knowledge I’ve picked up, and it feels like a disservice to be like…I have all these things I could take from, and people I can reach out to… ANd if I hone in on one thing I get bored really fast. 

**How did you first start making music?**

That’s hard. It’s got an indefinite answer. The raw answer is i was 3 or 4 and learned how to whistle, and kept my mom up all night. At some point the local community college had piano lessons for kids, but I never stuck with it. But around 12 i was really interested in playing instruments. Bass guitar called to me. So i started picking up bass guitar and have been doing music since. DJing shortly after, producing around the same time. 

**What was the transition from instruments to a DAW like for you?**

I came up with the DAW. There’s always been a computer right next to me. Even when I got my first bass, and first interface when I was 13, I was tracking it to a rudimentary protools. The thing that made it come into maturity was learning more analog stuff, music theory, chord voicings, and then the DAW makes more sense because I know music better. 

**When you moved from playing instruments to composing your own music, what kind were you doing? People you were emulating? Sound or effect you were trying to go for?**

At the beginning, I was just playing around. Eventually I did some Dilla, ‘90s hip hop type thing. That was a fun practice, because I was like I understand this music I love. Then I started making stuff I thought sounded good regardless of style. But early influences were Dilla, more guitar stuff like MBV, Drop Nineteens, Victor Wooten. He had this sick six string bass. 

**Cool to hear you talk about MBV, because I can hear their love for reverb in the way you approach your music.** 

I’ve been really interested in the lyricism of the shoegaze movement, or lack of lyricism, like suggestions that get stuck in my head. Like what does it mean? There might be 12 words int he song but I know how it makes me feel. 

**A lot of rap I like lately whether dark plugg, or Quavo and Lana Del Rey, we’re moving away from overly constructed lyrics into something more direct and simple. Emotion coming much more from tone and delivery than content of what is being said.** 

I fuck with it. I’m not a great lyricist. And that’s the zeitgeisty thing going on, so I”m like maybe I should put out some vocal stuff again. I’ve never been an “i’m like this and they’re like that” rapper.” A lot of rap songwriting now is being cool, doing a vibe, maybe it’s being esoteric, but maybe I don’t have a lot to say about wearing designer or driving fast cars because I don’t do that. 

**I don’t think of your lyrics as esoteric. You’re not Ab-Soul. Rapping from the perspective of an astronomical body. Tomu was texting me the other night about Bad Dayz Good Jokez.** 

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I”m really interested in turns of phrases and putting words together. I come up with bars in a roundabout way, I’ll write down words or phrases that I like, and be like, how can i make a song out of this? I’ve been listening to melvin van peebles a lot more lately. You really get that he was a writer. His songs are some classic shit that a black guy in the 70s would do, talking jive but making it way different, rock, jazz, that shit is inspiring. 

**What do you take away from that?**

Atmosphere. There’s some direct influence, but I’m not about to record a soul orchestra. But the lyrical parts, where he puts you in a mode of stories told from people who were on the streets. He can make you feel like this is a song from someone who has been there. 

**When we’re talking about lyrics, are you producing and then writing a melody? What’s your process?**

It’s usually a really long process. I make the beats quick, I have 100s that just sit. When it comes time to make an album, I write to that, and freestyle. Omnibus, the beats were made in a week and a half. I had more of a hands on process, that was taking music that wasn’t even completely done, and I was writing the lyrics around the same time. The fun part for me that I’m getting into, is when I’m in the process, I’ve been feeling more comfortable looping stuff, making stuff into a song. Before, I was trying to push everything through. Now i’m more interested in scaling back. Where would I want the hook again? Would I want the beat again, here? LIke a radio song. 

**What feels different about the process when you’re working on everything in such a short span?**
 
I’ll just make an album when I’m really down bad in life, because I feel that thing Toni Morrison talks about, like when the world goes to shit, you go to work, becuase you’re not going to take it lying down. Omnibus was way faster, and also things were kind of shitty, but i felt more focused. So I guess the energy came from the focus, I guess. Considering everything around us, it’s a lot going on. That’s why I went by my own name, not entirely my own name, but i think this is me. I really put it together, this is what I think, how I feel. Versus before it was halfway, or 80 or 90 percent of the way to that. 

**That 10 to 20 percent difference of swoozydolphin and Toriin, where is that difference?**

It has to do with the range. Swoozydolphin is like me being a producer. Engineer, yeah. DJ, yeah. But mostly it’s me making sounds. With Toriin, it’s the sounds, but I also had something to say, stuff to talk about, and investment that even if the music doesn’t go far, it represents me. I put out like 20 albums. But this one was like, I stand behind it as myself, not totally, because that’s a weird thing to do, but i went and played my guitar, made some dance beats, made some hip hop, and I think the songs will make sense. 

**For sure. The headline will be “swoozydolphin is not standing on business.” Cuz what do you mean you don’t stand behind it?**

I stand behind it!

**Gum.mp3 is on here, and you were on his project earlier this year. I really fw both those songs.** 

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Those two tracks are kind of related in that they’re both old. Gum is bro. I just did a mix for his show coming out soon. We make music. We send stuff both ways. And we’ll have stuff that has been sitting for a while. The one on his album, he sent chords and a few drums, and I made it a juke thing, and it’s been sitting since 2021. The next year he sent me the rough draft of his album to master, and he was like, it’s time. This one, the one on mine, it came from a pack we were making to build out for somebody, and I think he sent it, but they probably didn’t get back. It was sitting on my hard drive, and neither of us had plans for it. I was like, I want to use this. 

**How do you pick what old stuff to include next to what new stuff you’re recording in a fast time frame?**

I don’t know it’s just the feel of it. Most of Omnibus was new. The old ones that were used, were off the feel. The new ones, I knew where the sonic world was at. And you gotta exhaust all options. So I went back to listen to old beats to see if I was missing anything. 

**Was there any particular song that came together very fast, or took the longest?**

The hardest one was probably either Clearinghouse, because I didn’t know what to do vocally, and I gave up and did dance music shit, or Float, because it was really early and I didn’t know I was making an album, just wanted to make a song that was comfortable. And I freestyled the whole thing, and landed on some themes that I worked on over the whole shit. The fastest was Rotation, I did that in 30 minutes. 

**When you say Float felt comfortable, what feels comfortable about that song to you?**

I don’t know if everyone gets for it, but I got the vibe I was going for. From the mixing, to everything. It’s relaxed, but it knocks. I don’t have the lyrical aspiration to point to other stuff, I want them to mean something to me and other people. Float was like, I wasn’t trying to get too personal, but I still wanted to make something that meant something.  

**Sometimes do you think people get the impression that your music is more tossed off than it is?**

Maybe. This album, it was raw vocals. Auto tune for sure, but I didn’t pitch it up. I didn’t obscure it too much. And it wasn’t like, nothing phrases. There’s writing going on. 

**There’s distortion, but it’s not to obscure things. It’s more atmospheric. Versus in the service of hiding stuff, or making it more difficult to hear what’s being communicated.** 

There’s a continuousness, to the washed out vocals to the dry vocals. I like the dry vocals. Dean Blunt does that a lot, Doris does that a lot. Really just them talking into their phone sometimes. But sometimes I do my thing with auto tune, reverb, and distortion. 

**What is the same between your DJing and the music you make?** 

The distance is closing. DJing, I like it not being my voice. I like going all these different places, that might be really different. I came up with a term for my DJing which is “extended format.” That means, I’m gonna play whatever. Go beyond what you’re comfortable with. And it’s gonna make sense in the mix. With my music, it’s all me. So there’s not anywhere to point to. I would like to point to other places sometimes. Lately I think they’re merging. I’ve been DJIng more of my own stuff. And in my music I’m getting better at referencing. 

**When you’re thinking about what to point to in your DJ sets, how do you know what to select?**

In a lot of ways it’s methodical, but it’s also different every time. I keep crates. I came up under OG great DJs, like Mike Huckaby, and all the DJs of Detroit who are here, and of yesteryear. So I keep crates. That’s the methodical part. But it gets real free associative when I’m doing it. And feeding off the crowd. I might play a rock song, or a ‘90s hip hop song, or Lazer Dim, but I quickly go where I want to go. When you start a set, you want to lay down ground rules. 

**What are your go-to ground rules?**

It’s probably going to be fast, probably going to mix fast. I”m going to go a lot of places, a lot of times. And play stuff people haven’t heard. I don’t play familiar music. And I try not to play tracks again, really. 


The swoozydolphin Interview

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<iframe width="100%" height="166" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" allow="autoplay" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/1896509526&color=%23ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&show_teaser=true"></iframe><div style="font-size: 10px; color: #cccccc;line-break: anywhere;word-break: normal;overflow: hidden;white-space: nowrap;text-overflow: ellipsis; font-family: Interstate,Lucida Grande,Lucida Sans Unicode,Lucida Sans,Garuda,Verdana,Tahoma,sans-serif;font-weight: 100;"><a href="https://soundcloud.com/rumoredtobeamongthebest" title="FINALS.BLOG" target="_blank" style="color: #cccccc; text-decoration: none;">FINALS.BLOG</a> · <a href="https://soundcloud.com/rumoredtobeamongthebest/finals-chat-no-01-iwaad-chat" title="Finals Chat No. 01, IWAAD Chat With Timmhotep Aku.mp3" target="_blank" style="color: #cccccc; text-decoration: none;">Finals Chat No. 01, IWAAD Chat With Timmhotep Aku.mp3</a></div>

Saturday we watched the flick at Tribeca Film Fest (*It Was All a Dream*, dir. dream hampton, 2024). Sunday we chatted about it and processed in real time (outside on Bedford Ave., pardon the background noise). And Monday, here we are, publishing on soundcloud and ye olde blog. 

This is me with culture worker and friend [Timmhotep Aku](https://linktr.ee/timmhotep), reflecting on an amazing documentary. While its wider release is still uncertain, *IWAAD* is highly recommended for casual rap fans and essential viewing for '90s music historians, featuring footage of Biggie, Snoop, Method Man, Dre, Leshaun, Nikki D, Guru, and others, depicting them in as casual a manner as you can imagine, in the studio, riding around in cars, in hotels, at photoshoots, and on the street. 

Regardless if *IWAAD* eventually shows up on Hulu or Netflix or whatever, it will endure as an underground cult classic, sparking conversations for generations. This is ours. It's not an exhaustive breakdown or anything, but rather raw thoughts from two people who were moved by what dream made and wanted to talk about it while still under the influence of the screening.  

For more info on *IWAAD*, read Mankaprr Conteh's interview with dream [here](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/dream-hampton-it-was-all-a-dream-interview-1235035536/), and Alphonse Pierre's review [here](https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/dream-hampton-it-was-all-a-dream-is-the-right-rap-documentary-for-right-now/). And for reference about the part where Timm talks about the PTP Archive Coalition, peep my interview with GENG PTP [here](https://finals.blog/posts/The-GENG-PTP-Interview) and follow [@genggrizzly](https://www.instagram.com/genggrizzly) for any upcoming events. 

Finals Chat No. 01: It Was All a Dream with Timmhotep Aku

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Hotline TNT: best rock band in America? My favorite anyway. 

*Cartwheel* (2023) is their pinnacle to date, and with that album in regular rotation still in 2024, I sat down on my stoop and talked to Will Anderson on speakerphone about his 15 year old musical project (if you count his earlier band Weed, which I do, since it's pretty much the same rock ideas). We also touched on how he makes his Hotline guitars sound so cool (open G tuning, Weed was open E), and the difficulties of maintaining a steady lineup EVEN when you're signed to Jack White's label, critically adored, and getting booked for nonstop tours and festivals (his four piece band is playing Gov Ball (smallest font on the flier) and Pitchfork this summer). 

Not everyone is built for the lifestyle. But Will is. He makes and sells his own merch, makes and sells his own zine, and does everything that he can DIY even though he's "part of the music industry" now. He's a few credits away from a school counseling degree and could easily just hang it up and pursue a different career. And yet, album after album, show after show, t shirt after t shirt, he keeps doing it and getting better and finding reasons to hang on.  

I cut some interview at the end about making [merch inspired by stuff Michael Jordan used to wear](https://assnup.bigcartel.com/product/yo-black-shirt), and the subscriber list of [Assn' Up](https://assnup.bigcartel.com/) (Association Update), his zine, because I liked ending on the stuff about playing shows, sick with lightweight meningitis. Hardcore, not exactly advisable, and deeply appreciated by fans. Seemed like a good note to go out on.  

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**Finals: Earlier today I was playing one of my Weed 45s, the “With Drug” and “Eighty” 7”...**

Will Anderson: That’s the earliest one of all. FIrst thing I ever recorded. 

**First thing you ever recorded?**

Well, there was a tape or two. But first vinyl.

**Wow. I remember seeing you at this place in Seattle called Cairo back in that time.** 

Yeah, that’s where it all started. 

**Can you talk a little about that time and that place? What do you mean, ‘that’s where it all started’?**

That’s where I got my first taste of being part of any DIY community. We were a Vancouver band, but we recorded that 7” in Seattle with Jose Diaz. Do you remember him? He was in a band called Neighbors. He helped run a place called Heartland, too, maybe?

**Oh yeah Heartland was in the U District.** 

Yeah. And somehow I got it in my head that we should record in Seattle, with Jose, who actually I haven’t seen since until a month ago, because he lives in Berlin, and we were passing through Berlin [on tour], and he hit me up and we reconnected. But anyway, I was on tour with another band when I was 19 year old. And we played Healthy Times Fun Club. Did you ever go there?

**Definitely saw a few people there. It was in a basement in Capitol Hill. People lived there, and you could get vegan beans there.** 

Yeah. So I was in my first ever tour, tour managing this band, and they played a show at Healthy Times Fun Club and I was like whoa, I have no idea what the fuck this place is. It was my first taste of that. So eventually I move to Vancouver and I’m in Weed and I’m like we gotta play this place in Seattle, it’s underground, there are vegan beans. 

**Ha ha.**

And we did, and five people were there.

[phone cuts out]

Did you lose anything?

**No you were talking about Cairo, Heartland, and Healthy Times, and what the scene was like.** 

We played Healthy Times to five people. We were an unknown band from Vancouver. There was a couple guys who lived there who we met, who we hung out with. And they were like next time you come back, you gotta play this place Cairo. And I was like, I don’t know what that is but cool. This was all being coordinated on Facebook messenger. And we came down, and this guy Ian Judd set up a show for us. I’m sure you know that name. 

**Yeah I wrote a [story](https://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/capitol-hills-cairo-presents-vibrations-festival/) about Cairo at the time for Seattle Times and they actually photographed him.** 

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*Photo by Erika Schultz*

Yeah. We pulled up to Cairo, and Ian opened the door, and the rest is history. It changed everything. Started playing at Cairo, and I would drive down to see shows at Cairo all the time. It was a magical place, at the time. 

**Can you describe the magic a little bit?**

I don’t want to give Ian too much credit, but he was a really special curator of the vibe. For some reason him, and Travis from Naomi Punk, gave Weed the stamp of approval. I think they probably saw I was of the same feather, and cared deeply about DIY music, and not waiting for the music industry to give you the allowance to do things when you can do things for yourself. We became the Vancouver tentacle of this octopus that the Cairo people were creating. They showed me the way. I don’t think they knew they showed me. I was new to making a band, and going on tour, and probably didn’t let on how new I was. But i don’t know, it was a cool place, with a lot of interesting bands coming out of that storefront on Capitol Hill. 

**If I ever meet you in real life I’ll give you some artifacts of that time.** 

What do you got?

**I got a Stephanie 45, handwritten Sharpie…**

Stephanie was a band that, I knew everyone in the band, but never saw them live. I don’t think I ever even heard the records. But I’m still tight with Matt Lawson. We talk all the time. He came to our show in Austin. 

**No way, from Stephanie and Secret Colors.** 

Yeah we played video games a lot during the Covid lockdowns. And I see Ian Judd all the time, too. I don’t know if you see him. 

**I saw him recently at a fish narc show, and he tried explaining to me what he’s doing with Nina Protocol but I don’t know what blockchain is, really, and I don’t get it.** 

He’s explained it to me three or four times and I don’t understand it. He’s more involved in the electronic music world now, and has hooked Hotline up with some people who are remixing us. Like DJ Python, are you into that?

**I like Python.** 

Downstairs J is doing one, Physical Therapy is doing one. I know we got off track a little there.

**It’s trippy thinking about that Weed 7” as being your first recorded music because, you have five people in your band, now, or some big amount of people, but the sound has not changed, really. The style of rock music.**

Well to be fair, the recordings are all me, still. 

**Cartwheel’s all you?**

Cartwheel’s all me. 

**You’ve had several iterations, right?**

Yeah. The touring’s pretty intense, and people that think they might wanna do it, don’t end up liking it as much as they thought. I would love to have the same people in the whole time, but it hasn’t worked out. It started as a three-piece. I think five is my max. Right now we’re actually at four. That could change any time. 

**Have all your recordings been all you?**

Both full length albums were all me, and the last 7” was all me. The first 7” there was other people playing on it, when it started as a three-piece in Minneapolis. 

**What’s that like, starting all over again with new people all the time? Do you feel like the head chef of a restaurant?**

That’s a good way to put it. It’s very frustrating, and very stressful at times. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve said, this is it, I found the lineup, and then something happens, or some turmoil. It’s been hard. But for some reason I keep dragging the corpse around, and it seems like it’s getting better. But it’s difficult. 

**You’ve been doing it for 15 years.** 

Well including Weed, yeah. 

**Which I see as, again I hear Weed as similar, so this is your project, and it’s been going on for a long time.** 

The only thing I’ll say about Weed, is that after “With Drug”/”Eighty” it was me and my friend Kevin, it was a duo. But I was the one saying, we gotta go on tour, we gotta make connections with the people at Cairo, that was all me. 

**So how do you stay knowing people who will join the band? Because they’re younger than you, right?**

There was some younger people in Hotline, but that was a grave mistake. And now everyone’s in their early thirties like me. 

**A grave mistake, huh? Why’s that?**

Playing all-ages shows is really important to me. With Weed, we never played an age-restricted show. I think young people are really important for creating music and spaces. But I’m 35 now and it’s just different having people in the band who are a decade older than me. I don’t fault anyone for having different priorities, but at this stage, I just need to take it more seriously. Unfortunately, I’m part of the music industry now. I won’t go into all the gory details, but I just want to take it more seriously than some of the people had been. 

**Do you prefer a certain amount of people in the band? You have such a heavy guitar tone, maybe it’s better with more people in the band?**

That is true. I would prefer to have three guitars. But four people is workable. Two guitars. 

**The main characteristic of Weed and Hotline TNT is the guitar. Can you talk a little bit about writing riffs? Certain things on a guitar, are go-to rockstar moves that everyone can get behind. And you do that, but also play with time signature a little, or throw in some left turns. But you keep it really accessible. Does that ring true?**

Yeah. Not all of it is conscious but some of it is. I”m trying to write catchy pop songs at the end of the day, I don’t have a ton of interest in writing stuff that’s hard to listen to. But sometimes we do stuff that, where I want to string people along and surprise them a little bit. It’s hard to articulate what those things are. But I listen to mostly pop music. I like catchy songs. 

**What’s a catchy or perfect song to you?**

A recent example is “360” by Charli XCX. I love her music. That’s on my recent plays on my Apple music library. 

**What’s it like writing a song like “BMX.” It’s so huge. And you’re doing it all yourself, and it’s for the stadium, the arena or something.**

Actually it’s funny you bring up that riff. That’s the one riff in this whole band that I didn’t write. But this guy Jack Kraus wrote that, and he’d been in the band for a while, and he played it and I was like, what is that riff? He was playing it in the Hotline tuning, and he was like you can use it for the band if you want. 

**What’s the Hotline tuning?**

It’s like open G, but it’s not open G. I don’t know if it has a name. I may have stumbled across it. It’s like if you were playing a G chord. 3-2-0-0-3-3. It’s like if you tune a guitar to that, open. So far been two tunings. Open E, which is what Weed did, whole thing open E. But now it’s open G. It provides a lot of the power pop, jangly, ringing out at all times, quality. 

**Just more strings playing a complimentary sound?**

Yeah, you can pretty much always leave strings open and it’ll sound good. 

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**What about “I Thought You’d Change” do you want to talk about it at all? I know it’s pretty popular. It’s so good. **

It’s definitely out poppiest song. Let me think of what I can say about it. It’s like the peak, if I can be so bold, of my lyrics. I think it’s a catchy phrase. It’s so ubiquitous, changing your mind. I take a lot of…I’m trying to think of…ok take Hotline Bling by Drake. The fact that he says call me on my cell phone is so, weirdly the earworm of the lyrics. Nobody uses that phrase any more but it gets stuck in your head that he says cell phone. I get latched on to simple turns of phrase. I thought you’d change your mind…

**Text when you’re outside.** 

Exactly. But it’s very easy to be corny. Especially when you’re talking about technology. I feel like talking about texting in your songs, it’s hard to do. But i think I pulled it off on that particular song. 

**When I heard it last year, I was like damn this sounds like Weed. And I didn’t know it was you. And I was like this is what I have been waiting for. Now I see it has almost a million plays on Spotify. This is what a lot of people want to hear.** 

I think so too. It’s funny I brought up Matt Lawson because he’s been following my career this whole time, and been a great supporter, and he said when Cartwheel came out that he was really glad I kept it going. He said there’s always one more thing keeping your project going. One more tour. One more record. And people were connecting with it a little bit more, a little bit more. Seems like with this album, it’s so far the peak of that. 

**And “Out of Town” is so fucking good. And the way “Spot Me 100” turns into another song is so good.** 

Thank you. People are begging us to play that live. I think Mike, our drummer, could pull it off. We have a large catalog, and a lot of turmoil, and we’ve gotten through about half Cartwheel for performing new songs and that one hasn’t made the cut yet. But I would like it to. 

**Yeah that tumultuousness must take a toll.** 

I hate it. Most annoying part of this whole band. Number one thing I hate about it. 

**Well if you start doing bigger numbers and bigger tours, do you think it would be easier to get people to commit?**

I would have thought we were there. We’re making more money than I ever made. Shows are better than ever. And we had someone quit the band last week. I don’t know what else i can do. We all get along really well, too. I’m not trying to make it sound bad, but it is a lot of work to be on tour this much, be away from your girlfriend, or whatever. That’s what it comes down to. The lifestyle is hard for people to commit too. 

**Do you think, if it was more collaborative, than people wouldn’t quit so much?**

Well, I would like it to be. Every time someone drops out after six months, someone else says, well the last guy quit after six months. It’s just Will’s project, so I can quit too. It’s a self sustaining cycle. I would love to open it up to people, but I don’t trust that people are going to be around that long anyway. 

**Well I guess a song like BMX is proof of what you’re saying, that you are willing.** 

Exactly. Yeah the door’s open for the people that stay in the band. Have you heard the story of the little red hen? My mom read it to me all the time. Who’s gonna help me collect the wheat? Who’s going to help me make the bread? And everyone wants to eat the bread. It’s like, everyone wants to be a body builder but nobody wants to lift heavy weights. That’s the way I see it, and I’m not trying to be jaded. This last spring was a grind. And I got really sick on tour. 

**I wanted to talk about that. Did you get exhaustion?**

I think I got, no one gave me a definitive answer, but I think it was a viral infection. Meningitis, maybe. There’s two types and one is much more severe, and I think I got the more mild one. Maybe. For 75% of the American tour I would be on my back. 23 hours a day on my back. Get up, and play a show. Then go back to being on my back. 

**You got sick, and put your body on the line.** 

Yeah and there’s four people plus my tour manager, and I didn’t feel like I could stop. And we didn’t. And I couldn’t help with loading gear, or selling merch. It’s hard to ask people to do stuff like that. 

**Probably especially for you.** 

Yes, I pride myself on doing it all DIY. I didn’t fully recover until I got home. But now I’m ready to go back out. And not everybody is wired that way. 






The Hotline TNT Interview

Finals’ first video premiere (double hammer emoji)! From the legendary PTP camp (relevant Finals interview [here](https://finals.blog/posts/The-GENG-PTP-Interview)) comes the the FLY visuals to King Vision Ultra’s “[Fangs](https://algierstheband.bandcamp.com/track/fangs-with-desde),” which was embedded in this blog post at the same time as it was taken off “unlisted” status on YouTube.

Shot in the industrial basement of the LES’ Abrons Arts Center, this utterly NYC affair was directed by Shenaia Ramsey and features rapper Desde. I like how Desde raps flanked by pipes, concrete, and PTP crew, with Ramsey’s location and lenswork vaguely recalling the urban claustrophobic experience of Method Man’s “Bring the Pain,” and the scene literally representing the underground. And shoutout flex dancer Ski, whose moves are perfect for an especially serpentine song from KING VISION ULTRA’s 2023 (re)mixtape/album [*SHOOK WORLD*](https://daily.bandcamp.com/features/algiers-king-vision-ultra-shook-shook-world-interview). 

Watch the video, and check out what KVU (aka GENG PTP), Ramsey, and Desde had to say about it, the music, and what’s next for PTP. And def check for all of their work going forward. I'll add that I saw Desde perform a bunch of KVU-produced tracks recently and it was crazy! Beats tectonic, raps all-darts. That’s all I’ll say on that. 

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**Desde**

**Whats your favorite bar on "Fangs"? Why?**

“*Airheads seek asylum in the sky / so why should I fight my gravitational pull, if pigs could fly too?*” 

That’s my favorite bar because it’s loaded lol! But very simple still. At the root of it I’m asking: why would I pull away from my grounding to join you being distant and running away from the grounding essentially, when the impossible can be possible? 

If “pigs can fly,” I imagine anything can come true. I don’t want to be in the air and unfocused and gazing into space when the reality is right in front of me.
 
If anything can come true I want parts! I want my wildest dreams to be possible and I want to make it happen. 

**How is your album with GENG coming and are there any themes developing on it so far?**

It’s coming! Slow and steady. We’re making it gem by gem. 

Honestly I suck at writing about my own themes lol! Everything is thematic by nature but it’s always hard for me to pinpoint it with words. I’d ask others who listen what do they hear the themes being? What stands out to them, what ties do they make listening to the music?

I think it’s because all the themes I’m writing about are currently being lived through. I’m tryna understand them myself. 

--

**KING VISION ULTRA (GENG PTP)**

**Where did the sounds come from on this music? Idk if that’s guitar, idk if that’s tambourine…the beat sounds like a rattlesnake.** 

hahaha i'm def not about to whosample myself to death but the shit is crazy flipped and i think it all comes from only 2 sources. the main chunk of it I chopped in like 2017/2018, originally with some totally different drums, from one of my favorite albums of all time. for the version Desde got, I had removed the drums and layered those sounds with something that i literally sampled and then broke down into stems - so it's not even a standard "drum break." i wanted to expand on the effect of that tambourine... it def sounds like a rattlesnake which is why i suggested "Fangs" as the title in response to hearing what Desde wrote to it ... specifically after "your teeth don't hang low..." like, "bet... that connected the dots."

**What’s next for PTP as far as spring/summer shows and releases?**

at this moment, the label release schedule is set for a new album every month til November... a lot of surprises and [*RESIST...*](https://purpletapepedigree.bandcamp.com/album/resist-colonial-power-by-any-means-necessary) comp alumni haha. Plus a book or two.  Show-wise, in June, I'll be in Philly and Atlanta with Dreamcrusher as Centenny Gzzz...plus DJ'ing one night in NYC which is something I rarely do. Amani doing a ton of work with STILL/MOVING. H31R just came back from UK/EU. Dis Fig is touring with The Body. YATTA is back in NYC.  There's a lot of us and a lot happening. I'm personally organizing less in terms of shows and more focused on screenings and space activations with the PTP Archival Coalition. More community markets too. Stay tapped in, you heard.

--

**Shenaia Ramsey**

**What did you want to accomplish with this video?**

Overall, I really wanted to bring the raw, and gritty feel to life that the song “Fangs” provides. Also, to collaborate with GENG, Desde, and PTP as a whole to make sure their ideas were included too, and I think we did that very well. I plugged the homie Ski in because he's just a crazy dancer all around which also really matched with the rawness of the song-- I really wanted some crazy movements in it to create an airy, spooky feel to compliment Desde’s rhymes.

In the beginning, when I initially was proposed with the idea to do the music video, off rip I was thinking flickering strobe lights, a dark space, dark figures/shadows, and the inclusion of the train because you can hear a scene of the train passing in the song, on top of Desde mentioning it in one of their lyrics. All in all, I am very happy with the outcome of the video, I believe I accomplished everything I wanted to, and I'm so very thankful for everyone involved.

**What was it like shooting in the Abrons Arts Center’s basement?**

Mannnnn, shooting in the Abrons Arts Center in the basement was like the perfect spot perfect location! Shoutout to maassai for the tour of Abrons first and foremost. Desde, GENG, and I linked up there to do a quick location scout tour back at the beginning of January 2024, a couple of days before the set day and it was fun we were looking at a few different hallway options and stairwells but the basement’s hallway was the one that we knew for sure we wanted to use. The day of the shoot was legendary in my opinion, we had a couple of homies in PTP pull up to be extras in the scene, they bodied and it was very smooth for me, not too much to handle as far as giving directions. Then of course I have experience with shooting with Desde already because we shot “[Ock Deli](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcVlufcVCBE)” but I could tell that this shoot would be different because of the different directions and just having to do different takes and different types of shots compared to the one-straight natural shot. So that was fun directing them and reassuring them that she was doing a good job! Everyone on set was just so supportive and uplifting, it was high vibrational the whole set. 

GENG, man he’s funny yo, I got to see more of his personality and how youthful he is. It made the set very comfortable to be able to just be myself while staying focused because it was just a safe space. I think my favorite moment during it was doing the one one-on-one shot with Ski dancing. It was very intimate and I don't know I just felt how connected he was to the song through his choreography. Overall, shooting in Abrons Arts Center’s basement was exactly what we envisioned.

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Video w/ Commentary: "Fangs" by KING VISION ULTRA ft. Desde

“It’s honoring yourself in any way you can.” So good & such a beautiful reminder. Can’t wait to hear what’s next for Amal Zenab, seething at the thought of it! Amazing interview! 

![Screen Shot 2024-04-10 at 6.34.37 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2024_04_10_at_6_34_37_AM_424540317d.png)

Before the homie Hattie Lindert takes it away here: I got into [Amal Zenab](https://amalzenab.xyz/) last year, and found her because I listen to everything the producer/guitarist/photographer [Nathan Bajar](https://www.nathanbajar.com/) does. Their 2023 EP called *Safe 'n Sound* pairs Bajar's beats and guitar with Zenab's layered, honeyed voice and comes up with something perfect. It's the kind of producer/artist combo that's so good, I wanted them to become a permanent thing like Ice Spice and Riot. As soon as I heard "Ride" I was like, this is rare chemistry. 

But talking to Zenab (it's her middle name), it turns out she has great taste in producers and wants to explore. Yesterday she shared me an unreleased track produced by [10.4Rog](https://daily.bandcamp.com/lists/10-4-rog-discography-list), who is a friend of mine and a certifiable genius, and she struck synergistic gold again. As she explains in the interview, she works deeply with producers who she appreciates not just as musicians but as people, making real relationships that give the music a richer essence. 

This season she's moving from her home of Queens, NYC, to L.A., to work more with Rog and to tap in with her community she's been building there over the past year as a bicoastal person. Don't worry though, she'll continue to work with Bajar, as well. She told me Bajar and Rog are "my bruddas frfr." It's just, she's expanding her world. 

Her move will be a loss for the New York scene, a gain for L.A., and the music she makes out there will be a blessing to us all. Here is Amal Zenab in conversation with Hattie Lindert, lightly edited for clarity.   

<iframe style="border: 0; width: 350px; height: 588px;" src="https://bandcamp.com/EmbeddedPlayer/album=1251345386/size=large/bgcol=ffffff/linkcol=0687f5/transparent=true/" seamless><a href="https://amalzenab.bandcamp.com/album/safe-n-sound-2">Safe &#39;n Sound by Amal Zenab</a></iframe>

**HL: Safe 'n Sound is gorgeous and I’m curious about your chemistry with Nathan Bajar, how you connected, what you liked about his approach to music, the way you guys worked together…**

AZ: I met Nate at a jam session somewhere in Bushwick, summer of 2022. I pulled up to the jam alone, our mutual friend Evan who goes by 13th Law invited me, and so it was summer of exploration, my summer of being out and about and knowing what it is to immerse myself into uncomfortable experiences. I walked into the session and sang for 20-30 minutes when it started, and then other artists did poetry, singing, rapping, etc. Toward the end of that, I was like OK let me go up again before I head out and meet up with friends. So I went up again, and it was all off the top freestyling. And then I was done, and as I was walking out, Nate stopped me and he was like, “Yo, did you come up with that yourself, off the top?” I was like “Yeah,” and he was like, “That’s crazy, would you want to link up sometime?” And I was like, “Yeah for sure.” I’d heard of him through another friend of ours, and heard his music before, but the thoughts didn’t connect until after the fact. From then, we had our first session on August 10th, and that day I pulled up on him after meeting with someone I was talking to at the time, and was overwhelmed with emotion for them and didn’t really know how to process everything. We didn’t live in the same city and I didn’t know when I would see them again. So I was going into this new experience with Nate full of grief and emotion and just falling for someone and feeling super lovesick. That was the perfect combination to start the journey. Our first session, he also invited our friend Maiya Blainey who pulled up that day. Amazing artist. And you know, I kind of was like, I know you guys don’t know me like that, but I’ve had a day. I just need to get into the booth. And hopefully we can make some beautiful stuff out of it. And that’s how I made “August 10th,” during that first session.

**Sometimes, I guess that’s what it takes, the right people on a crap day.**

The right people who have the skill and ability to channel what you’re feeling. You know, it does take a village to do anything. I’m grateful that by happenstance we were all in the same place at the same time.

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**Was that your introduction to Maiya Blainey too?**

Yeah that was my first time, and she’s so sweet. Very quirky, and eclectic, and vibey. And you know we were all just gauging each other, and we realized we were all fall babies. I believe she’s September, I’m October, and Nate’s November. So the autumn council.

**Is there anything that stood out to you aside from being able to create this great song, about your chemistry together? Or between Maiya and Nate? Or you and Maiya? Or all three of you?**

With Nate, he felt like my music, I don’t know if I would say soulmate, but my musical telepathy twin. With him it was very easy, no expectation, very comfortable. He set the tone with having a safe, open space with me, compared to my past experiences with producers who were very predatory or didn’t have good intentions, especially as a femme artist I was very grateful for that. The more my comfortability grew, the more seamless the process was. We spent August 2022 through February/March 2023 just putting all these finishing touches on this project. And so you know, I’ve never experienced that before. I never wrote songs that fast. And truly having fun, and both of us losing our shit when we hear the demo that we made, being excited about it. Through that new experience we cultivated a beautiful friendship. He’s like a brother to me.

**That’s amazing. You speak about these predatory experiences, and then the surprise about how great it was to work with Nate, is there an ideal environment for you to really make your art flow?**

My non-negotiable is establishing some form of friendship or relationship with the person before diving into working with them. Sometimes artists go into sessions with new producers, and there’s no sense of community building, or actually getting to know each other properly, and dive into it without that interpersonal connection. But I make the best work with people I’m close with. It’s very important for me to be comfortable. In an environment that’s not open, or not judgment free, or accepting of flaws, you’re mentally on edge and it shows in how you process the art. You hold back, in discomfort.

![Screen Shot 2024-04-10 at 6.34.08 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2024_04_10_at_6_34_08_AM_af5eda20b4.png)

**That philosophy, did that come to you when you were young? What was your upbringing with music like?**

Growing up, my parents would play a very diverse selection of music from all over. I was always singing, always in musicals, and choir, and I was in church choir…

**…in Queens?**

Yeah, born and raised. I’m used to being in community with other creatives. As I was growing as a person in my youth, I was enveloped in so many beautiful, interesting lessons through music. I also had the opportunity to sing at Carnegie Hall in like junior year of high school, we sang Duke Ellington’s Sacred Music, and that was a canon event for me. I think people know that music is spiritual, but it’s another thing to truly feel it. That showed me that music was my passion, and that I wanted to do it for the rest of my life. I was studying international affairs, and was on track to be a diplomat, but honestly art is a calling. Just in paying attention to how I feel, in settings where music is around me, if I’m learning music, or freestyling, or anything, it’s just really important for me to feel safe and be surrounded by brilliant minds that you can have energy exchange with. How else can you grow, learn, expand?

**Is there anyone that you’d love to collaborate with that you haven’t gotten the chance to yet? Or an artist you love that you sense you’d have a connection with?**

I would love to work with Mndsgn, Liv.e, Kelela, Solange, Nick Hakim, a lot of alternative R&B or indie artists that I’ve listened to for a long time. I feel like there’s fragments of all of them in what I do, as well.

**Those are incredible artists and I think they definitely come through in your work. What are some of the concepts or ideas that you’re working through in your music right now?**

So I’m working through a lot. I honestly am definitely being intentional with how I write, how it makes me feel, and how it translates to other people. I’m trying to release a song hopefully in another month or so, and I wrote about what’s happening in the world right now. I’m pro freedom, pro Palestine, and as an artist I think we are obligated to talk about injustice. So I wrote a song about that with my friend Moki, he goes by Lion Milk, and I’m excited to bring that into the world. It’s gonna do something, I pray. I hope that in a small way, I can be impactful and get people to think more beyond the superficial. I feel like we’re becoming desensitized, so the song called “Save Us” because I think we need to be saved. From atrocities, and internal atrocities and turmoil. I’m working through life. My inner and outer chaos. And making it tangible because I know other people can relate.

**In a moment like this that feels so bleak, and overwhelming for an individual up against systems causing atrocities, do you have strategies about how to keep making art in the face of these hardships that are going on everyday?**

People underestimate their art, just being in comparison mode, or their perception of what the standard is. I believe that art is anything from a journal entry to releasing your emotions and crying, or just any form of output is art to me. I think that it’s all about being imperfectly consistent. It doesn’t have to look like a full-fledged studio session every day, but I’m neurodivergent also so routine gets mundane, and with that you have to acknowledge that whatever tiny amount you do, it’s art. I journal every day, document every day, through voice memos, or practice my bass…it’s honoring yourself in any way you can. Once you do the release, and contribute that small little thing, you’re freeing up your mind space to when you are ready to create something more tangible it’s easier to enter that flow state. For people that struggle with that, acknowledge that what you think is a standard, does not exist. A tiny little bit of something, a scribble on paper, you honored yourself by doing what you wanted in the moment and that should be enough.

![Screen Shot 2024-04-10 at 6.34.19 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2024_04_10_at_6_34_19_AM_3634039ec5.png)

**That is really good advice. You’re born and raised in Queens, how does the area influence you creatively?**

I’m blessed to be from Queens. A lot of legends are from Queens. There’s a historic neighborhood of Addisleigh Park, and a lot of jazz musician like Duke Ellington, Billie Holiday, and even Muhammad Ali, and Jackie Robinson, Black legends lived in really nice homes in this area. Growing up I listened to A Tribe Called Quest, and Nas, and Nicki Minaj, and all of these Queens icons, on top of pop music, Whitney, Mariah, Michael, Luther, and gospel music. And so I just think that I have a beautiful blend of culture within me. And Queens is the most diverse borough. It’s the largest borough. All the friends I have, I feel like friends are like puzzle pieces to who we are, and with growing up in such a beautiful, diverse place, I have accumulated an encyclopedia of knowledge and tidbits, down to food, and communication, and shared experiences. Being from here, I’im very proud of it. Being a New Yorker you have to grow up fast, and navigate a crazy city at a young age. Tying that into my artistry, and who I am, it’s a big part of me. I also feel like with my roots, you can almost see the theme of Afrocentric-ism, and even Africanism, because that’s my big umbrella. I’m all for the advancement, and the abstract, the ethereal, and growing up spiritually as well, I try to tie that into my work even down to how harmonies feel, or how airy and spacious a song is. As much of a tangent as what I said just was, my whole life I think is puzzle pieces, and the songs are fragments of that. That sounded mad artsy. 

**No, I connected with the puzzle pieces.** 

People from Queens, we have heart. And me as an artist, you’ll see it, you’ll feel it. People who talk to me, feel better after talking to me. I’m aware of my energy. And it can be impactful in a good way. My inner world, and who I am, it shows and reflects in how it makes people feel. I don’t know if that makes sense. Cuz it’s hard, but it’s really important. If we don’t take care of ourself, it’s a downward crumble. But remembering you’re not alone, I struggle a lot. My brain is running a million miles a minute. And remembering that I’m not alone, and so many people that have shared experiences with me that I can learn from, that’s what sustains me and keeps me going. 

**Community is so huge. I don’t know where I am without community. So you’re going to LA tomorrow…**

Yeah I’m working on a song for another release this year. And I’m also moving there this spring. It’s been calling to me. I was bicoastal all last year. So I’m looking forward to not buying a flight back and forth. It will be my Big Girl move. 

**What are you most excited about for this year?**

I’m excited to experience more people, and be in rooms with different energies out there. I really feel like this is the beginning of the uphill climb, and I’m excited to be around my community out there. And grow as an artist, and a person. I’m in my late 20s, so I’m doing the work, and excited to build a beautiful world, someway, somehow, in my artistic expression and I think a change of scenery will do me well. I’m excited for all the beautiful people I’ll cross paths with. This summer’s gonna be lit. 

Featured Post

The CENSORED dialogue Interview

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The swoozydolphin Interview

Finals Chat No. 01: It Was All a Dream with Timmhotep Aku

The Hotline TNT Interview

Video w/ Commentary: "Fangs" by KING VISION ULTRA ft. Desde

The Amal Zenab Interview