small_Screen Shot 2022-06-24 at 1.37.22 PM.png

thumbnail_Screen Shot 2022-06-24 at 1.37.22 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-06-24 at 1.37.22 PM.png

RIOTUSA on Ice Spice, Clearing Samples, and Influencing NY Drill

From Surf Gang to Union Los Angeles, the Rise of Saji Abude

![enumclaw5.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/enumclaw5_6b36fa3166.jpg)

Shout out Stas THEE Boss for the following interview with Enumclaw –– who just today announced their second album Save the Baby is coming out in October on Luminelle Recordings. Thanks Stas! And I’ll say this, since the band was kind enough to share an early version of the album for me to listen to: y’all are not ready!

-Andrew

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bAqn0POxNcE" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

With much excitement, I hopped on a call to fangirl and rap with the fastest-rising rock group in Washington State history, Enumclaw. Ladaniel, the group's drummer, was on time at 4pm sharp. He told me this was their seventh ever interview. Having released just one EP (Jimbo Demo), the group captured the snobby ears of Pitchfork, was declared “our favorite new band of 2021, so far” by Gorilla Vs. Bear, and has been featured in The Seattle Times and Stereogum. With all of this instant hype, they are not acting fake humble. They believe in their music and love to perform. We talked about Tacoma, Tina Bell and Toe Jam.

–Stasia Irons

All photos by Enumclaw & friends via disposable camera. 

![enumclaw3_500.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/enumclaw3_500_015f3ce1cd.jpg)

**Stas: So I am Stasia, Stas THEE Boss. I DJ, I produce, I rap, I was in a rap group in Seattle for ten years; we were signed to Sub Pop. And now I’m just working for a music tech company, still rapping. I live in Brooklyn but I’m from Tacoma, split time 50/50 between Tacoma and Seattle growing up. But I’m writing for Finals with Matson and he asked me to chat with y’all. I’m a huge fan of your music. I’ve known Aramis for a little while but wanted to intro myself to you all. I’d like to get your introductions one by one.** 

Eli: So I’m Eli, Aramis’ little brother or whatever. 

**Stas: Like for real for real?**

Eli: Yeah. 

**Stas: Oh my gosh.** 

Eli: I’m in the band. It’s nice to meet you. 

Ladaniel: I guess my name’s LaDaniel. I’m the drummer in the band. I’ve known Aramis for about two years. Two, three years. I don’t know I’m bad with time. Just yeah, been hanging around with these guys making music for the past year. 

Aramis: My name’s Aramis, I play guitar, sing, DJ, and take photos among other things. 

**Stas: And together you are Enumclaw?**

Aramis: Yeah, plus Nathan, the token white guy. 

**Stas: Ah yes yes, shout out Nathan. He’s at work. He’s on the grind. Aramis, in 2019 you put out a playlist on Spotify called Port Townsend. And that showed me your music range. I thought, this guy’s not all hip-hop. Cuz I knew you from Bujemane, and Toe Jam, and hip-hop stuff. But that playlist actually sounded like Port Townsend, WA.**

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0-ttn3JvSKI" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe style="border-radius:12px" src="https://open.spotify.com/embed/playlist/6VaAhGjDiddwM8sHLIRltu?utm_source=generator" width="100%" height="380" frameBorder="0" allowfullscreen="" allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture"></iframe>

Aramis: Yeah I put that playlist together after I went to Port Townsend with an ex-girlfriend of mine and that was our soundtrack. That’s one of my favorite towns in Washington. 

**Stas: It’s cute over there. Were you bored with hip-hop?**

Aramis: Yeah around that time I started to get bored with it. It’s started to get worse. When I got into rap, there was a lot of artistic vision. Rappers were creating a world you could be obsessed with. Now, I love the gas station rapper, it’s just everyone’s a gas station rapper now. I had gotten bored with rap when I put that together. 

**Stas: And then you formed in 2019 right?**

Aramis: Yeah, end of the summer. 

**Stas: Let’s get into your band name. I saw you got it from Enumclaw’s wrestling team. Are there other reasons you chose that town for your name? It’s catchy, it’s cute, it looks nice on paper.** 

Aramis: We were planning to go by Jimbo but then I found out about this band Skullcrusher, who was a folk artist, and I was like damn that’s sick. Then I googled “Jimbo” and someone had started using that name, and then we were like fuck we should change the name. We couldn’t think of anything but then Enumclaw popped up. A lot of my inspo was about Enumclaw, I started wearing Romeos cuz I seen kids in Enumclaw doing that. We argued about it for a second. Nathan and LaDaniel didn’t think we should go with it. But then I saw Khris P and he said we should go by Enumclaw, I think it looks cool, and it sounds cool. If you’re from Washington then you know it. If you’re not, it can be whatever. 

**Stas: Did you look up what the word means?**

Aramis: Yeah there’s two different meanings: evil spirits, and thunderous noise. 

**Stas: Evil spirits are around, but you are beautiful and magical. Let’s talk about Tacoma. Are you all from Tacoma?**

Aramis: Technically I’m from Lakewood. 

Eli: Technically I’m from Spanaway. 

Ladaniel: I was born in Lakewood but I’ve been living in Tacoma forever. 

**Stas: My grandma is from Gravelly Lake.** 

Aramis: I’ve been to your grandma’s house. It was going up. One Christmas I was there, it was going up. 

**Stas: Wow wow wow. Definitely every Christmas is popping. I want to say you guys are founders of a Tacoma renaissance. You started Toe Jam, there’s eTc, Post Office studios, Studio A, All-Star Vintage...what’s happening there?**

Aramis: It does feel like there’s this new energy. We’ve all stepped out and done the Seattle thing. And it’s left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. There seems to be a real strong sense of community as of late. 

![enumclaw1_500.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/enumclaw1_500_4f5ac2aa85.jpg)

**Stas: You seem really tight knit.** 

Aramis: Yeah, all the people in the scene, I see them once a week. They’re my actual homies, no politics. We’re all friends and hang out. 

**Stas: Lit.** 

Eli: From an outside perspective the Tacoma/Seattle thing...Tacoma just feels like a fresh start. In Seattle there’s all this, who did this before, all the politics of that. Down here it’s more forgiving. Everyone seems like they really want something to happen. Nobody’s pretentious. 

**Stas: I feel that. That leads me to talking about your style of music. Feels grungy to me. I just recently learned that grunge was started by a Black woman. Her name was Tina Bell. This predates Nirvana. This was late ‘80s. She was the lead of this grunge band, Bam Bam. I know you’re inspired by Oasis and Nirvana, but I wanted to know if you had any other Black rock influences.** 

Aramis: Black rock influences…. Somebody who really inspires me is New Edition. It might not translate in the music. In the newer songs, maybe not much on the EP, R&B is a huge influence on me, more than rock. If I could do anything in this world I’d be an R&B singer. 

**Stas: Who else inspires yall?**

Aramis: Drake and 40, and OVO Sound. That’s what inspired me to start making music in the first place. 

**Stas: Anyone else? Any other inspirations?**

Eli: Livin life, hanging out. A joke somebody told. 

Aramis: Yeah life, memories, the feelings of stuff. Yesterday we were working on a new song, but then Eli said this feels like the fall. A gloomy day. Stuff like that inspires me. Those days that stick out. For some reason, the day sticks out. 

Eli: Sometimes it’s really specific, not just a gloomy day, but when it just starts raining, and the sun is still shining. Stuff I can’t really explain. A song will make it come out, which is tight. 

![enumclaw2_500.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/enumclaw2_500_32b4ab04c6.jpg)

**Stas: I get those. I have moments of joy that come from music. I might start crying. I love that. Do you think that because you’re mostly a Black band, that has hurt or helped your visibility in any way?**

Aramis: Before we put out the music, I was really nervous about it. But because white people be so the way they are, I think its honestly helped us a little bit. But it could hinder us in some aspects. When you can see yourself in somebody, it really does a lot. Statistically there’s more white people than Black people. So not everyone’s going to see themselves in us. 

**Stas: Who cares? You don’t have to see yourself all the time.** 

Aramis: Right. Timing-wise, there’s no better time to be a mostly Black rock band. 

**Stas: The time is now. We haven’t seen any in a while. And you guys are the first mostly Black grunge band I’ve seen. This is revolutionary.** 

Aramis: I might have seen one all-Black rock band ever. That part’s exciting to me. If there was a band in 2014 that looked like us I would have been in awe. 

**Stas: How are you guys dealing with your immediate success? What does your trajectory look like now that you know people are fucking with your music?**

Eli: Things look pretty tight. It hasn’t gotten weird yet. There’s nothing like, I can’t leave the house. Or I’ve had an awkward situation. But if that comes, maybe it’ll be funny. 

**Aramis: It hasn’t made me feel any pressure. But you can already tell people outside the mix are like, Oh shit. My aunt’s trying to tell me what to do in the next video. Stuff like that. This guy Ladaniel though, told me about a story. I’m gonna put him on the spot.** 

Ladaniel: I’m with my mom and my girlfriend at Target, and I’m about to leave. And this chick I know from high school screams at the top of her lungs, “Ladaniel!” Had everyone looking at me. I couldn’t do it. 

**Stas: Oh no.** 

Ladaniel: Everyone looking at me like, Who’s he? Who’s he? I’m like, I’m nobody, don’t look at me. I’m chilling. I just came in here to pick up prescriptions. 

**Stas: It gets weird. When my band first got popular, it scared me to the point where I would go out with a mask on. And now everyone has to wear a mask. But I had a full mask on.** 

Ladaniel: That’s cool at the venue, but it’s not cool when you’re with your family. It’s weird. 

Aramis: The Toe Jam experience, kind of prepared me for it. Every single time when I left the house I knew I’d see someone that I knew. I’d be at the mall with my mom, and someone that I loosely know is like, Oh what’s up. But that experience made it a little more normal for me so far. I was at eTc the other day and two white dudes rolled past and shouted out their window, Hey, Free Drop Billy!

Eli: That’s hard! They were reppin. 

![enumclaw4_500.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/enumclaw4_500_de165b45de.jpg)

Aramis: Stuff like that’s cool. It’s cool to know people are listening to music, in a way that people don’t usually. People are really listening to these songs. 

**Stas: To talk about Jimbo Demo. Your album. Out now on Youth Riot Records. Tell me about where you recorded it, and about the architecture of the album.** 

Aramis: We recorded it at our friend Spencer’s house, half of Youth Riot with Daniel. We had these songs, which got written and worked on last summer. And then we just didn’t know where or how to record them. So I asked Daniel, and he was like Spencer can record them. So we did that. One time I thought I had COVID, and the other guys went without me. Some of it was recorded in my apartment. “Fast N All” vocals were recorded in my living room. I’m an extrovert, and when the pandemic started it was a hard adjustment to make. At the beginning of the pandemic, I was dating someone, and then we broke up in June. So the songs are really me sitting with myself in a way I hadn’t before. Trying to be honest with myself and who I am as a person. In some of the songs there’s also desperation. I know age doesn’t matter, but I turned 25 in December and was like, What am I doing with my life? Does music even exist anymore? I’ve been seven years doing this. I have a degree...for why? The songs are me trying to will a last ditch effort into making something happen. 

**Stas: It does feel like desperation. “Free Drop Billy,” “I don’t wanna be a loser.” I’ll sing it all day. There are a lot of people on y’alls dick. But any people you really want to speak with? Any labels? Tours? Collabs?**

Aramis: Shows. I wanna go on tour. If we could go on tour with a Tame Impala or something like that. I loved, loved that Yves Tumor album and it turned a switch in my head. Nothing’s been the same since. And Dev Hynes. And if we could play Lollapalooza, Reading, Leeds, Coachella. That would be cool. 

**Stas: It kind of scares me to think about going back to festivals. I have one booked in two weeks actually. I’m shook but I’m going to do it. If Afropunk is back, that’s a no-brainer for you guys.** 

Aramis: Absolutely. 

**Stas: One last question. This is silly. But I need to know. Dick’s, or Frisko Freeze?**

Eli: Frisko Freeze, c’mon. 

Aramis: Just off the fries and milkshake alone, Frisko Freeze. 

Eli: Dick’s be soggy, pause. 

Ladaniel: I guess Frisko Freeze. I haven’t had Dick’s in like a year. 

Eli: Pause. 

**Stas: Pause.** 


Tacoma's Enumclaw Is Not Acting Fake Humble

![otherdesert3_500.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/otherdesert3_500_b3c13c1197.jpg)

Big up Aidan Koch for doing this interview with the strange and cool [Other Desert Radio](https://otherdesertradio.com/), and taking all the photos. Thank you Aidan! Bonus hyperlink: Aidan is an [artist that you should know](http://aidankoch.com/), who lives in Landers, CA, with a bunch of animals.

-Andrew

<iframe width="200" height="250" src="https://www.mixcloud.com/widget/follow/?u=%2Fotherdesertradi0%2F" frameborder="0" ></iframe>

As you drive east on Interstate 10 in a desperate attempt to get out of L.A., exit 117 appears about an hour and 45 minutes in. “Other Desert Cities,” it says, a gesture towards something different, something distinctly not Palm Springs, or Indio, or should you continue on, Phoenix. 

“Other Desert Cities” is an entry point to what we call the Morongo Basin, a constellation of towns off Highway 62 more generally regarded as Joshua Tree. The density of artists, musicians, and weirdos there is astounding, even given the thousands of acres of land. I moved there three years ago, and was met with a community that inspired me. 

When sound artists Caroline Partamian and Ethan Primason moved there in 2020 and decided to start an online radio station, with shows strictly by Other Desert residents, I was excited to hear what they could scrounge up. I was also excited to be part of it. (My show is called [“Desert Dove.”](https://www.mixcloud.com/otherdesertradi0/the-desert-dove-earth-day-2022-special/)) 

In a reflective mood, Partamian and Primason spoke to me on their patio after a casual sunset walk with their dog Beverly. We talked about what they created with ODR, what’s to come for the station, and using radio to create and uplift community.

–Aidan Koch

All photos by Aidan Koch

--

![otherdesert6_500.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/otherdesert6_500_5a7098ab8e.jpg)

**Aidan: Did you already have the radio in mind as you were spending more time out here or after you officially moved?**

Ethan: We both had worked in radio previously. Myself in New York, Caroline in the Bay. Once we started collaborating together artistically we found transmission as common ground between how we explored creatively. That was something we incorporated into projects not necessarily with a radio station but using the language of transmission as a way to explore building community and politics and art. So that was definitely on our minds. And then when we started spending more time here and considering moving here and then moving here it was something we thought was needed. We got our house and didn’t have internet and were listening to radio and were just like…

Caroline: It was all top forty.

E: It was just really bad.

**A: Just like only Z107.**

E: Yeah exactly and it has its place. We weren’t trying to start an on-the-dial radio station but it reminded us why it’s important. And as we started meeting more people and realized how many really talented, interesting people were here, it seemed like something worthwhile to spend some of our time on.

C: We’d spent time here obviously, we’d met you, and we had been living here in the fall of 2019, but as soon as we permanently settled, lockdown happened. Being in this strange, unusual, and isolating time, we wanted to still be able to make things for one another, to make things safely, and be able to share things we were listening to or just thinking about.

E: And I feel like one of the things that always was really hammered into my head working at a radio station was being reliable and accountable to your listenership. That felt really huge at the beginning of the pandemic since there was so much uncertainty. We were like, “What can we do to check in with ourselves and other people like once a week?”

C: It was a huge way of getting through the pandemic for us.

E: It’s also still small and something that’s fun and not too serious except in regard to being reliable and consistent. That’s important to people and people respond to that and want to be a part of it which is really great.

![otherdesert5_500.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/otherdesert5_500_0243ce25b8.jpg)

**A: I remember talking with you guys early on and knowing there were people submitting who you hadn’t met yet and people on there who hadn’t met each other. So the existence of it kind of showed people there’s other parts of the community that you might not even know about.**

C: It’s cool because we still haven’t met many of the people who make shows, and dream of events where everyone can gather and meet and be like, “Oh you have that show,” or, “I’ve heard your show before.”

E: So much of the romantic idea of radio is the silent audience and the invisible audience. It’s a strange feeling if you’ve ever broadcast before or been sitting in front of a microphone and you see the LIVE button. It’s pretty abstract and scary. But there’s kind of this intimate thing where you know someone is listening out there, but you don’t know who it is or how they’re feeling about it. Taking that to a different level where you’re communicating with people who are creating content and shows for us to host when we’ve never met them is also this weird kind of cool. Like I’m excited to meet some of those people because I already feel like we have this connection with them

**A: It’s special out here where we’re all really spatially far apart already. There’s so much distance between like Landers and Wonder Valley or Pioneertown and Twentynine Palms, but there’s also this feeling of connectivity about being part of the high desert community.**

C: Other Desert Radio is really for amplifying the voices of people that live in the high desert or have a connection here but we have listeners elsewhere and we’re like, “Who are those people that are listening in Hungary or wherever?!”

E: It does feel like a bridge between the gaps geographically of this zone. We’re all sharing a similar experience here but are spread out and not seeing people as often as when we were living in a city. One way I think of it is that, “I can’t wait to see this person again because last time we talked they were starting classes or working on this project.” You know everyone is deep in their world which I think is usually an interesting one. It’s always exciting when we get new shows in and listen to everything because it’s like checking in with people.

**A: And maybe a funny way to think of it too is everyone is living to their own soundtrack here, which feels especially relevant driving around this landscape. The desert really magnifies moods.**

E: Which is funny because we both have really old cars and neither have ways to listen to music when we drive. I was thinking about that today while driving around. I kind of wished I was singing along to something or listening to something, but I also love just having the window down and not listening to anything.

C: Just listening to the wind. Sometimes I do try and turn on ODR from my phone, but it’s too windy with the window down so I put it up to my ear.

E: It’ll be a good day when we get stereos in our cars to listen to our radio station.

C: Otherwise it’s religious talk radio and Z107 and The Eagle… a lot of Tom Petty.

![otherdesert1_500.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/otherdesert1_500_7ba31314e3.jpg)

**A: This area historically has a lot of live music shows and events. Do you see some live music/local music content coming in as we open up again?**

E: I hope. Starting with taking control at a time when things felt really out of control, getting our feet planted and being like, “Send us playlists,” felt like a good way to start. But we have larger plans for community gatherings, sponsoring or putting on shows, and broadcasting events like Summer’s Eve festival. We want to try to facilitate or bear witness to that happening here. I hope we can go to shows and bring a mobile recorder and be like, “Do you guys want to archive this? And be on the radio?” That’s a lot of what I come from when I was doing radio stuff in New York.

C: That was one of my favorite things to do too when I worked at a community college radio station in Berkeley called KALX. They would call it “co-presenting” a show and the radio station would set up at a show and broadcast it. It created a comfortable layer around which to be able to talk about music, transmitting, and broadcasting it. I hope we get to do that at some point. We also dream about an Other Desert Radio DJ night that’s not on the radio but has the radio’s community attached to it.

E: From the beginning too, we didn’t want to be curators. We’ve never said no to someone who’s wanted to do a show as long as they live here, which has been the only guideline. With the intention of acting as a mirror for this place, if there’s a crazy weird live show that people want to submit or record or have us come record, we’re down to explore and have those interactions. That was always appealing to us with transmission as this very powerful forum for people, a kind of lateral, democratized thing, where everyone can access this world where your voice can get recorded and saved forever in this intentional way and you can have your words or your music or thoughts broadcast around the world. It's a really powerful idea and it doesn’t take that much to facilitate.

![otherdesert4_500.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/otherdesert4_500_35a63d35f9.jpg)

**A: From your histories and present lives, what are some of your favorite radio stations?**

C: I love Dublab BCN from Spain. It used to have the coolest most minimal look. Each DJ was a different shape that was painted on like watercolor. Their shows are super cool and weird. When we were in Austria at a residency a year and a half ago, I loved listening to the radio and not understanding the language. You could listen to someone talk for hours. I’d listen to a lecture and it would be a totally different experience. But just getting to listen to a DJ, the comfortable aspect of that, and then music every so often...it was just a way of bringing me to a space where I felt very at home. I also loved KALX where I worked when I was in college.

E: Growing up on the east coast I loved WFMU. I could pick it up in my car when I was a teenager driving around the suburbs of New York, accidentally tuning in and discovering crazy shows that you then mention to someone and they’re like, “It’s a treasure trove and it’s been going on for years and the archive is so deep.” There’s definitely a certain form of romanticism about that kind of radio. I worked for them for a while. When Caroline and I started collaborating we got pretty involved with Wave Farm which is incredible. I think both of those are really good examples with very different approaches of what radio can be. Wave Farm is more of an experimental, independently run, very small, nonprofit organization whose aim is to serve artists directly and offer a lot of grants for artists to experiment with audio. That was really reassuring as someone who was experimenting with sound as a medium. To see that there were resources available and a community that would support it.

![otherdesert2_500.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/otherdesert2_500_c36c9ab808.jpg)

C: It was like meeting other weirdos who would support your project and think it’s cool. That reminded me of driving into New York really late after being on tour for like a really long time. You’d put on WFMU and for some reason, it was always the perfect soundtrack to getting back into the city no matter what day it was. That’s the most magical thing about radio. When you can put it on and it’s serving the vibe perfectly.

E: And that goes back to being reliable and consistent. Having a years-long relationship with it. Like your music taste is always evolving but if you trust this collection of people to hit on your different taste and still know that they’re doing it, it’s a really comforting, grounding thing that you can return to. I hope we can do that. I hope in the future maybe with more support or with more grant opportunities, maybe we can facilitate people’s projects that are sound related that we can host. It’s cool seeing those organizations and radio stations and what they’ve done because it gives us a lot of inspiration.

**A: You just had your one year anniversary for Other Desert Radio. What are some things you’ve been proud of?**

C: As a direct response to COVID and the protests last summer, every single week we focused on a different nonprofit or mutual aid organization who needed more funding or highlighting than we needed. There were just so many greater priorities than us individually.

E: I’m proud that we prioritized that. Paying attention and spreading information, even if you can’t offer a ton of money, is really big. It’s cool to facilitate these other ways in which a community can get stronger.

**A: I think it places it back in the bigger world. Although based somewhere small, it re-connects it with the broader community and so much else of what’s going on where the stakes feel higher.**

C: It was a good opportunity for us too to learn about funds that were already set up for things like Black mental health or Desert Communities United or when the wildfires were happening last summer. It was a way to get to address some of those things. That’s part of the radio station now, highlighting different organizations.

E: Ultimately, it’s not work that feels taxing for us, it’s fun, and it feels important.

C: I look forward to it every single weekend and when Monday comes, uploading them and making the posts. At 5pm we’re so excited to listen to all the new shows. I have to walk Beverly at 4:30 that day because I have to be back home to tune in.


Magnified Moods: The Weird & Wild Transmissions of Other Desert Radio

![Screen Shot 2022-05-27 at 10.26.43 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2022_05_27_at_10_26_43_AM_8a8e541300.png)

His launchpad was Brooklyn drill music — the minimal [“Maneuver”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUzKDrT2aBA) with Rocko Ballin made him a local icon in 2020. But now 26AR wants to make all kinds of rap, and ultimately to be one of the biggest artists in the world. 

In 23 minutes on Zoom, we talked about his recent signing to Def Jam, “Hottest In My City” with Rob49, his come-up with the producer A Lau, his experience as a chess teacher –– and how on one hand, yes, he makes rap that represents reality. But on the other hand, people should think about rap like TV: don’t believe everything you see. 

–

**Nice to meet you. So where am I reaching you today, at home?**

Yeah I’m stuck in the crib, I’m on an ankle monitor. 

**Oh damn. I’m sorry. How long is that going on?**

Probably for like another month or two. 

**So you’re going to be able to get out for summer, and maybe play some shows?**

Hell yeah. I can do shows now, I just gotta ask for permission. 

**Oh I didn’t know how that worked. **

Yeah I gotta ask wherever I wanna go. 

**Congratulations on the Def Jam deal. How did that happen?** 

Saying, a bunch of labels were hitting me up. And Def Jam hit me up, and we had a meeting, and it went well. So I was fucking with it. I felt like there was a vibe with them. Other labels were just talking money. That’s not it. It’s gotta be a vibe. 

**What do you want to do now that you’re on a major label? Does that change anything for you? Do you have new goals? **

Bigger goals and shit. But nothing changed. I still gotta work hard, be consistent, that doesn’t change. But I’m trying to be one of the biggest artists in the world. Shit like that. 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/z6ALdScz8DI" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

**“Hottest In My City” with Rob49 from New Orleans just dropped. Anything you wanna say about that track, or about him?** 

I fuck with Rob, that’s my boy. My manager put me onto dude and I was fucking with it. They told me about his music and I tapped in and was fucking with it. He came to my hood for the video. Broward Park. 

**Is there anything you wanna say about Crown Heights, what is your area all about?**

That shit is regular. If you’re involved in the wrong things though, it can be bad. Growing up I was involved in the wrong shit. And I did my time for that, I went to jail. But it’s not really that bad though, it’s regular.

**Do you notice the neighborhood gentrifying?**

Hell yeah, for sure. And there’s a lot of Jewish people right down the block, but they’ve been there. But yeah it’s gentrifying for sure. 

**It’s mixed Caribbean and Jewish and now all these new white people.** 

Oh you know about it over there?

**I’m one of the new white people. **

Ha ha. That’s crazy. Nah yeah, it’s cool. I don’t really be over there any more though. 

**Oh word you moved?**

When I started getting more of a name I had to move around. I can’t have everyone know where I’m at. 

**I seem to recall that Bizzy Banks, when he got popping, moved out to Jersey. **

You gotta do that. You can’t stay where you’re from because there’s a lot of haters. 

**I’m sorry you have to deal with that.** 

Nah, everybody gotta deal with that once they start to be somebody. 

**So I should mention: I’ve been following you, Rocko Ballin, A Lau and the Off Record producers for a few years. I’m a fan, that’s why I’m doing this interview. From the outside it looked like A Lau found you at the very beginning and you’ve all been growing together. Can you talk about how you met, and what you built since 2020?** 

I knew A Lau before I got locked up, in like 2015, 2016. He was producing for my older mans, doing music with them. But when I knew I wanted to rap I called him, I contacted him from jail and was just like I need some beats and shit. He was one of the people that was there when I came home, and we just went straight to the studio. I shot my first video in the studio. 

**That’s a lot of history, six, seven years.**  

Yeah since I was a teenager. I’m 22 now.

**So when you were in jail, you were thinking, when I get out I’m gonna link with A Lau, and we’re gonna make music together, and we’re gonna fuck up the game.**

That’s exactly what I was thinking. 

**Well you did it.** 

Yeah. 

**You’re on Def Jam, Rocko’s on Geffen, A Lau’s working with whoever he wants to…Fivio…everyone leveled up.** 

Yeah that’s a fact. That’s how it’s supposed to go.

**But it hardly goes that way for anyone. What happened? Was the quality of the music just that good? What was the recipe?**

You just gotta stick to the plan. A lot of people don’t be sticking to it. They give up. Through hardships you gotta keep on sticking to it. 

**OK so how do you feel about the label “drill rapper”?**

I don’t like that label. I can really rap, though. It’s not just drill rap, I can do all type of rap. “Hottest In My City,” that’s like a trap vibe. Sometimes I feel unsafe calling myself that, because once you label yourself people get a picture in their head of what it is, like a menace. The thing is everyone raps about violence. I don’t understand why drill is so much of a thing. 

**New York’s mayor, Eric Adams, wanted to ban drill rap from social media.** 

That doesn’t even make sense. 

**But like you said violence is in a lot of genres, and it’s also just in our society. So I think it’s unfair to make a scapegoat. **

Biggie and Tupac were rapping violence. That’s regular. That’s what the fans want to hear, they like that shit. 

**Do you feel like you need to give fans what they want? Or you give them what you need? Or what are you trying to deliver?**

I’m just thinking about my story. My life. Whether they fuck with it or not, that’s just what it is. 

**You think of yourself as representing reality.** 

Yeah. 

**What’s your process like as a songwriter? Like where and how do you come up with songs?**

Mostly in my crib, on my notes. I get beats from my A&R and write to it. If I’m in the studio I might freestyle a little, but I write in my notes. 

**In your opinion, is rapping easy or hard?** 

That shit can be hard. I ain’t gonna lie. Sometimes I be getting writer’s block, and I be stuck, and my head be hurting. But sometimes it be easy. I get inspiration from anything. 

**I know you are really nice at basketball too, like close to pro level. Is basketball easy or hard?** 

Saying like, for me it’s easy. I have natural talent that I won’t ever lose. I stopped for months and still had it.

**I’m interested in your take on the pace of drill, how it evolves so quickly. Do you feel pressure to keep up with the next wave?** 

Nah. I’m on my own wave. I don’t follow all that shit. I just do my own thing. 

**How do you feel about all the attention on Bronx drill at the moment? Do you care about that? Does it take attention away from Brooklyn? Do you just have to roll with it?**

I don’t really care for it, but I just know it’s a phase. All this shit be phases. But it’s about who can really keep it up. It’s about who can keep going. A lot of people can’t do that.  

**How do you feel about what’s going on with YSL and the Georgia RICO case, and the state using rap lyrics in court? Is that something New York rappers need to worry about too?**

Hell yeah cuz New York, we get indicted the most. I feel like it’s unfair because rap is entertainment like TV. You can’t believe everything you hear in a rap, sometimes we just paint a picture to amuse people. 

**So should rap lyrics be used in court?**

Hell no. 

**Sorry about this impossible question, but I always like to ask: Who are your top five rappers of all time?**

Jay-Z, Lil Baby….I could tell you my top five right now, I don’t know about all time…Baby, Durk, Jay…two more…I don’t know…

**I know you’ve mentioned Cassidy as an influence.** 

Yeah I like bars. He nice. 

**What about in New York? Like who’s hot in New York that you like?**

Rocko Ballin, QG Meer, Humble Gz, Ciggy Black –– that’s my boy –– Tazzo B, LR, who else be rapping from the guys? I don’t know, all the guys though. Drench.

**Is anyone else in your family into music? Where do you think you got your rapping from?** 

My dad used to listen to rap music all day, and used to rap a little, too. He was into like Jay-Z type of rap, regular rap. 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pDmoIM-FTc0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

**Can we talk about “Roll It”? Who produced that?** 

Lucas, my homie Lucas made that beat. We were in the studio, wanting to sample shit, and I thought of Maxwell. 

**That was your idea?**

That was my idea. All the samples be my idea, like “Heavenly,” Keisha Cole…I thought of that. I be trying to find some rare old-school shit that sounds good. I was like, make it a drill beat, and he did that shit. 

**I like how the sample is so pretty…**

Yeah.

**But also there’s that opposite thing where the Maxwell song is so about appreciating women, and your song is about being like a cold-hearted player. **

Ha ha I didn’t even think of that. 

**Really?**

Nah I ain’t even see it like that ha ha. 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CMx5TGyoQ9U" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

**I also wanted to ask about one of my favorite songs of yours, “Chills.” Is there anything that stands out to you about that one?**

I wrote that in jail. I knew it was gonna be different. Like not as much of a drill song, I was just trying to make a regular song, with a reggie hook. I wrote that in my notebook. I still got that notebook somewhere.  

**I heard you used to have a part time job teaching chess to kids.** 

Yeah when I first came home, ages 3-10.

**My daughter’s 3. You think it’s too young?**

Those kids know what they’re doing. They know when to go, they know where to go. They’re smart. She can learn for sure. 

**What’s cool to you about chess?** 

That it relates to life so much. I like thinking a lot. And thinking deep, thinking hard. You gotta think about your next five moves, their next five moves. You can make people do things they don’t wanna do. It’s crazy. I like thinking about stuff like that. Strategies. Tactics. Sacrifice, all that. 

**Are you nicer at basketball, chess, or rapping?**

I think it gotta be rapping because I went the furthest with rapping. But I don’t know!

**Is there anything you want to say before we stop?**

I’m coming for the city, coming for the world. That’s all I gotta say. Drench. 


26AR Stuck to the Plan & It Paid Off

![Screen Shot 2022-05-04 at 11.42.49 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2022_05_04_at_11_42_49_AM_679d98d0e0.png)

Having paid close attention to SoundCloud rap 1.0 but then missed the era after, I feel like I will never fully catch up to missing digicore in 2020. I know other people who feel the same. As a non-native to the scene, I have accepted my permanent outside status. Although I've been hyped to cover some of the action here on Finals with H.D. Angel's [The Browser](https://finals.blog/?category=The%20Browser) column and recent articles by Mars/Maria Kate.  

Through being on discord, however, and getting to know Gen Z people online, and with help from [No Bells](https://nobells.blog/) I have done some knowledge. So I made the playlist below for people who either slept on this stuff too, or are looking for a nostalgic walk down memory lane. I hope I have approximated what [Maria wrote here](https://finals.blog/posts/blackwinterwells-on-her-new-album-anime-and-catching-the-drain-flu), a time that saw *"the fusion of hyperpop and SoundCloud rap, which transformed what had been swirling as “the scene” or “the underground” into a genre some call digicore and others hesitate to put a name on."* 

I also hope that I have put together a selection that shows WHY major labels swooped in on this tidepool of music, which they did, selecting mainly cis men as the crossover stars from a scene that was pioneered significantly by trans and femme people, and people of color. They swooped in because the music was so strong, so full of life, so pissed, so emo, so what's-next-in-rap, and like SC rap v. 1, so suburbs-facing and directly connecting with fans that it required very little extra positioning in the marketplace. It was already hitting. Majors made choices to boost Glaive, midwxst and ericdoa based on quality (all very talented) and perceived marketability, purposely/inadvertently corresponding to what resonates with society's typical isms and phobias. 

The music changed after that. The scene-building posse cuts went away, and several people pivoted to indie pop. There is still momentum in digicore (or whatever its name is), still vital URL fests, still albums that rank with the best of what's out period. But the early phase seems like a bygone era. I will personally remember it as a glitchy, sparkling creative burst that made me believe in music again. Even retrospectively it gives me a feeling that I need sometimes when music feels stale and I'm forced to listen to old stuff (always a good move BTW) but then someone picks up the baton and shows us something worth diving into.  

<iframe style="border-radius:12px" src="https://open.spotify.com/embed/playlist/6joxem2aWG92bLa9utwL9X?utm_source=generator" width="100%" height="380" frameBorder="0" allowfullscreen="" allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture"></iframe>

Featured Post

RIOTUSA on Ice Spice, Clearing Samples, and Influencing NY Drill

Posts

From Surf Gang to Union Los Angeles, the Rise of Saji Abude

Tacoma's Enumclaw Is Not Acting Fake Humble

Magnified Moods: The Weird & Wild Transmissions of Other Desert Radio

26AR Stuck to the Plan & It Paid Off

Finals Best of Digicore 2020